Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, I'm Jeremy Rivera, your unscripted SEO podcast host and I'm here with Mike Ginley, who's going to introduce himself and tell us why we should trust him as an SEO expert.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: Hello everyone, My name is Mike Ginley. I am a digital consultant that I've been doing mostly SEO, digital marketing, paid ads, web development for the past 10 years.
I work full time for Centerwell and then I also do side work under Mike Ginley Digital Consulting, where I like to help a lot of the local mom and pop companies with their web and digital presence. I've experience from all areas of the business, whether it's the small mom, mom and pops to large Fortune 500 companies, everything under the sun, I, I've done it. I, I love doing this stuff. I can't get enough of it.
[00:00:51] Speaker A: When it comes to mom and pops. What's your feeling for that sub industry? What is it about that niche and area that's that needs specific focus and care?
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it's something that unfortunately I've dealt with for a long time, going back to my early agency days that a lot of them, unfortunately, I hate to say this, but I've been scammed by some of the fly by night marketers, companies, whoever it may be, that they will cash their checks, say they're doing some fancy work, but nothing ever really moves the needle.
And then they usually end up going through multiple agencies, multiple consultants. A lot of them, when they end up with me, I can already tell they're very upset.
They don't have a good representation of the digital marketing world as a whole. So they're already angry with me and we haven't even started talking yet.
And unfortunately it just comes with a lack of understanding on their end that they don't know what they need. It's a new world to them. A lot of them are from a different generation, so they're really just kind of trusting people to do good work for them and get them the leads or the business that they want.
And unfortunately, sometimes they're paying the wrong people to do that and pay the cost.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: I have unfortunately seen my share of snake oil salesmen and while there is a grain of truth that genuine snake oil does have some medicinal properties, the problem is when you substitute the actual snake oil for turpentine, you run into problems. So it's hard being that purveyor of genuine snake oil amongst people who are also saying, I've got the genuine snake oil and making the bigger, grander claims. You're like, it can help you with these specific small things. And the other less reputable folk are like, oh, it'll wash your windows or vulcanize your tires while you wait. You know, it's you all, you just put your trust in me and you know, I'll carpet bag you to success.
It is a forever challenge of our industry to overcome that negative reputation.
[00:03:02] Speaker B: Yes, yes, 100%. It's so difficult sometimes to really get people to trust you again after they've been burned so many times because a lot of these companies are operating on such thin margins that it's like they don't have that never ending bank account that it's like, oh, whatever, you know, onto the next one. It's like we put a lot of time, money and effort into this and are now in a worse off position than when we started.
[00:03:28] Speaker A: It is hard because it's like my wife just said, hey, this plus size boutique that I've known forever and I've complained forever about is actually closing. And she's like, that's hard because I know the owner and that means that she's going broke too.
And with small businesses there's, it's hard because there's such heart behind it, but there's also, they're putting their heart on the line. So I have this question from Reddit of if you are a small business owner, what is it that you should be looking for for an agency to do for you to justify taking it over?
You know, I have my own rant about that, but I'm curious what you would say to somebody who said why should I turn to an agency to trust, to entrust them with with this? What can they do that I can't as a business owner?
[00:04:31] Speaker B: Yeah. So I actually just wrote an article about this on my one side website, digital digitaleat.com where I highlight digital marketers, why they should be trusted, their expertise, authority, trust, all that stuff. Whether you believe in that as a ranking factor or not. I just like highlighting great digital marketers that truly can be trust. Walk the walk, talk to talk. But that's basically what I really wrote. There is like you need to find agencies or consultants that do that, that they can prove they have done this before in the past for other people. They have proven results that they've helped companies similar to yours or other local businesses and that they have a plan ready to go that is focused to you with timelines and everything under the sun that's going to show you like this is what you're paying for, this is what you're going to get out of it. Here's when we'll show you what you're getting out of it. Stuff like that.
So that's, you know, step one in finding that you got a transparent agency, a partner. You know, that's the way I like to frame it. It's like they're a partner. They're not just someone cashing a check for you.
But why you should trust someone. Like I said, a lot of these people don't have the education or skills to do it.
I'm not an electrician. I call somebody to go do that. An electrician should not be doing the web stuff. They should be focusing on their craft, their business, and let someone else that knows what they're doing kind of handle the web and digital aspects because they just don't have the time to become, you know, very skilled in that. If they, if they try to, they might be missing something with their business that could affect them even more. So than just their website isn't ranking as well as it should be.
[00:06:10] Speaker A: Uh, it's kind of, it ties into another subject as well of like, you know, Matt Brooks of SEO Tarek, I just saw that he said, as much as ChatGPT will tell you information and give you a response, it has not done, has not done it. It does not have the E of the E E a T. It doesn't have experience. It cannot experience things human.
And we can reference that and build expertise.
But those are two pieces of the puzzle that, you know, ChatGPT based tools or any tool can't actually give you. You know, you can turn and you can look at data in Semrush all day or Ahrefs or Zapdigital, whatever, you know, HNC Analytics.
But at the end of the day, it's a tool. It's displaying data and it still has to be done. And you need somebody with expertise to decide what of those suggestions has merit, which one's going to move the needle and which one fits all of those special little criteria and flags for your business in your area, in your niche at this time in history.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: Yep. I absolutely love when people are coming with ideas and like, I do love when they come with ideas. But just being like, no, that's, that's not going to do it. Let's, let's focus our time on, you know, this part as opposed to this random thing that's looks pretty, is tangible, but it's just not going to move the needle like you want it to. And ultimately I feel like that is what we do. We do the not pretty stuff, but it's the things that really work. But everyone's always looking for that silver bullet, big splash.
[00:07:57] Speaker A: I'm curious what, what's been your experience in connecting different channels of digital marketing in new and more interesting ways? Because that's kind of something that I think has really changed, you know, since what I call the end of the golden age of Google SEO, where all we needed to do is just reverse engineers Google's algorithm.
Now we have, we can benefit more from diversifying channels. You know, hire, working with affiliate marketing, you know, whether that's a, to just store 24 or share a sale or whatever, or, you know, working more closely with the PPC teams for those wins, working closer, more closely with brand and email teams. You know, if you, you know, if you listen to Morty Oberstein and others, you know, brand has value beyond just, oh, that's a logo.
You know, brand is more than just a logo.
So what's your in understanding SEO and the context of the bigger picture of digital marketing?
[00:09:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it all kind of comes into sort of building a base and then kind of continuing on with that building. So I always like to use SEO as the foundation. You gotta set up your website so that it is discoverable in the old SEO 101 ways that you got the right content, people can easily find you on Google, tell what you do, how to get in contact with you, 101's baseline. But then that was the olden days. That used to be enough. You could, you know, look up on Semrush like some certain keywords and be like, oh, we want to rank better for this. Here's how we're going to change the content, get some links to that, and boom, traffic's coming in. Now a lot of the local businesses I specifically see, like, I could probably look out my door in the next hour and see one of these trucks driving by a local plumber that they are everywhere. They're TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, they're sponsoring all the, you know, local 5Ks Little League baseball teams. You gotta be everywhere.
That's easier said than done, obviously. But gone are the days of just focusing on one channel and it being enough. You really need to start kind of diversifying and making sure that you are able to have a presence in all these different channels, whether it's video offline to online, whether it's, you know, print materials or sponsoring those races, things like that.
But I know a lot of people that I work with, especially in the mom and pop are kind of scared of the TikToks and the Instagrams. I'm like, you need to be there because these younger local companies are going to come in and just dominate because that's where people are right now.
[00:10:42] Speaker A: It is interesting understanding and seeing the trends on the age scale of discovery process and seeing, you know, Instagram and TikTok are up there for the younger demographic. It's, it's like 0% for boomers to like 20, 20, 20ish percent of, you know, use of TikTok is almost like a visual search engine trying to discover information.
It's hard for me as an SEO to let go of that desire to slap a URL on everything everywhere that I post every single time.
What's your take on that process of kind of letting go and accepting as what Rand Fishkin calls it a zero click universe?
[00:11:36] Speaker B: Yeah, and that's something that I need to get better with too because it's like wait, I can't track traffic to my website, like having a UTM on there and knowing exactly what happens after.
So it's learning these new metrics that are coming into play with the zero click understanding the AI overviews ChatGPT brand mentions as opposed to direct traffic to your website, understanding the kind of social listening metrics metrics or just understanding that impressions across your social channels can be just as beneficial sometimes in getting your name out there, getting that brand developed. So it's definitely a skill set that I need to learn and get better with and understand.
[00:12:15] Speaker A: I think part of it is also thinking through. Well I can't directly attribute it, but I can actually get a secondary benefit of if I do a good enough impression on this zero click channel to find me. They have to google my brand to find more information.
So it makes it that bottom of funnel process of ensuring that Word +Brand is bringing you up is more important than ever.
[00:12:45] Speaker B: Yeah, there's like in my mind I keep thinking this and have yet to execute on it, but just thinking of whenever there's some big splash marketing campaigns that we do that are those zero click understanding like put into data studio overlays like of this is when this started that we're not expecting any clicks. Do we see any traction happening from the actual channels and website traffic from there we can pretty safely interpret that that had that effect and that that offline that had zero clicks resulted in clicks in in a different way.
[00:13:20] Speaker A: I find sometimes the best role of an SEO is just bringing awareness in a larger marketing context down to some fundamentals. I think A fantastic one that I heard at SEOmoz in.
On the east, on the west coast, I forgot which one it was Seattle.
So they hired influencers, a bunch of influencers to push these pink pants and they, they were successful. They hired like 10 to 20 different, very big influencers to all that wear the same style of pink pants.
The problem was that they didn't coordinate with the E Commerce side and they did not have the E Commerce store fully stocked with enough pink pants. So after the first day their listing that was ranked number one showed out of stock and they dropped off and their competitor who had similar pink pants took home all of the money and benefit from all from the entire campaign because the one to one was not matched up. So just being aware of, hey, these other marketing aspects, here's the organic side of that, here's how this is complementary to that. Here's, you know, okay, you're doing a paid ad campaign. Well, just because it's a paid ad doesn't mean they'll always necessarily land on that paid land paid page every single time.
There's an organic uplift after effect too for certain types of, you know, distributive, you know, whether it's remarketing or direct ad campaigns, you know, there's a second secondary benefit. So if you're aware of that and you can position additional resources around a particular keyword, then that can have its own beneficial.
[00:15:21] Speaker B: Yeah. And like you kind of said with earlier with the supplemental aspects of being an SEO and having a hand in all the different channels.
I do see SEOs as that kind of go between the quarterback of just we know everything that's going on. I think I know me personally just because I'm nosy. It fits very well with how I do my work is that I like to know everything that's going on with our paid ads campaign with Google and Bing. I like to know everything that's going on with our social media, whether there's ad plays or just organic posting. But then also knowing closely with our web product team anything that's gonna be going out soon or do we have any issues that are like gonna be affecting anything that's happening with the digital area. So a lot of the messages that I usually get are people kind of kind of flowing through me for the different channels and it's like, okay. Actually I love that because it helps everything in the long run when everyone's kind of aware of what's going on. Nothing's siloed off.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: I think a good example of that is I worked in the legal niche a couple times. One with a guy in Atlanta, another was Raven Weissen in Nashville. And we found out that he was actually the witness and the lawyer for the last man electrocuted in the electric chair, and that he had an article written up as a PDF talking about his experience as the lawyer for the condemned.
And I read this thing, and it was a gut punch, and it was like, so incredible as content, but it was buried as a PDF 14 steps deep into the site, and he knew it was there, but nobody else did. So transmogrifying that into something we could promote and get it, like, you know, pinned to the front and then posted to Reddit and finding, you know, like a picture of old Sparky, because the electric chair was actually made from the wood of the gallows in Tennessee. So just that image got like 10,000 upvotes, and then it was connected to the story as the first comment of where it came from, and the story of the man that last died on it.
That just sent a huge amount of trust, a huge amount of traffic, and it just changed the trajectory of their digital marketing for a good year.
[00:17:43] Speaker B: That's an amazing story. Yeah, it's. Yeah, just the, the power that SEO can hold that sometimes people just don't. Don't understand. It's not just adding the keywords, but at the same time, you can do all this fancy work that we do, but if you don't have anything original say, it's. It's not going to matter either. You need to have both.
[00:18:02] Speaker A: That is true. It is.
There is something to say about finding that moment to be a genuine business coach and talk about what is your unique selling proposition?
What is it, you know, talking and interviewing the founder to understand what is that usp? What are they bringing to the equation?
You know, you're not just a home remodeler. Like, you're, you're bringing, you know, you're. You're bringing your relationship skills to that equation.
You're bringing that conversation. And you, you want to, you know, what's your approach to it? Because if you don't take that time to do more than just the basic keyword research, like, yeah, you can find out that, you know, remodeler is more valuable as keyword value than, you know, renovation.
But it's not the argument between which one of those two to use. It's, what is it that is going to differentiate you from the five or six other home repair shops in the neighborhood.
[00:19:15] Speaker B: Yep. And, yeah, with that, that differentiator comes into play. Like your website as a whole.
So many that I've worked with in the past have their pretty stock photos, but I know when I'm searching for an electrician, a painter or whatever, it's like, I want real pictures. I want to see you or who you're going to have showing up at my house in these pictures. I don't want the clean cut picture of this person smiling. Like, I want to see who's working and have the real stuff there.
[00:19:43] Speaker A: There's this trope of, you know, realtors, you know, they've got two smiling people shaking hands over the table and like, thinking about, okay, well, how do I write a meta description for this image? Like, thankful for realtor. Like, come on. Like, it's not you, it's not your actual clients. Nobody actually takes a picture while they're signing the paperwork. It's like you take the picture afterward. Like, you might hold it up, like, do that, but like the, the fakie, you know, stock image industry. I'm. I'm sorry. I'm glad that AI is murdering that in the crib.
[00:20:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. There's the. Is there a whole, like, Twitter account or subreddit for laughing at salad or whatever? Like, all these people.
[00:20:33] Speaker A: Getty images can go to hell and burn in the seventh layer and be chewed on by Satan himself for all eternity for all I care. Because they are despicable to begin with. They extort small business owners and the entire small, you know, image use is. Is just so fraudulent to begin with.
[00:20:56] Speaker B: Yep. And that's one thing that I try to coach a lot of my clients on now. The iPhone has a great camera. Like, just, just take some pictures. It's going to be, even if it's slightly off centered or just not the most picture perfect. It's going to be better than the random stock photo you put up there that everyone is either glazing over just like, that's weird to see.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: I think actually it's in.
I think it's going to be rewarded. You know, it's kind of the conundrum of stuff getting so good that it's like it enters that uncanny valley of like, is this an AI photo?
[00:21:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:32] Speaker A: And if it's like not the best photo, it's almost better because you know that somebody real took it and it's almost like you're close to wanting to add, you know, if not broken grammar. But not being afraid to say things in a way that isn't totally polished is almost kind of rewarded now.
[00:21:55] Speaker B: Yeah, I think about that a Lot like the. All the. I have Grammarly set up whenever I'm writing stuff and it like tries to polish things up. It's like. No, I like my weird way of speaking better than this polished version because it seems more legit to me and less AI Polished.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: Yeah, there's. I think there's a study that came out about the hive mind effect of LLMs behind the scenes. They gave it a.
A three human writing prompts that are. That generally for humans create drastically different stories and outputs. And what they found is studying, you know, over a couple of hundred prompts, doing the same thing across different models. Even different models came back with the same stories or nearly the same touch points of stories, revealing the weakness of the training material upon which our LLM delusions are all based.
[00:22:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I took an awesome course on actionable AI for marketers through Brittany Mueller. I mispronounced your name. Sorry, but it's awesome course. Recommended to everyone.
But she really kind of debunked so many ways that AI says they're changing the game, doing all these things when it's really. It's just, it's not AI. It's a large language model. It's a calculation of what they think the next word or next series of words will be. So it's not thinking for itself. It's not creating you something brand new, unique. It's all just a compilation of everything that it's been trained on, everything that's already out there, nothing original. And that's something that we just gotta get across to people.
[00:23:40] Speaker A: I came across that with my last guest. We were talking about the. The article by Wolfram Alpha, one of the original LLM pioneers, and he has a fantastic blog post that breaks down, what is ChatGPT actually doing behind the scenes? What is the basis of these LLM tools that people so casually just throw out? Oh, it's an AI tool. Well, it's not. It's an. It's an LLM.
And that's a language learning model which has its strengths and has its weaknesses. And as time progresses in these models, they layer them deeper and deep and add more complicated interfaces. And the implications are amazing and terrifying. But at the end of the day, it's math.
[00:24:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, and so many people have shown how they can hack it, spoof it, do all these things by, I guess the parasite SEO that we'll call it, putting things on trusted sources and getting and tricking the large language models to say what it wants to. And terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. What that's going to be.
[00:24:50] Speaker A: I think one of the superpowers that's ignored though is, you know, the ability to quickly take genuine human content and make it more easy to process. Like I did an interview with the VP of a, you know, precast concrete wall company and using Claude, I was able to extract quotes and massage them because his context was internal, not external. But the subject matter of what he said that he found mattered to the customers.
Uncovered a feature of these that hey, people don't want these big expensive walls to be dug under. And we do that and people ask for it. But maybe if we put it on our site more people would know and they'd go with us more because they knew up front that you can't just dig under these. We'd, we put them deeper into the ground. Like, oh yeah, anti dug technology couldn't be found in keyword research. You know, if you looked up precast concrete walls and I did and use three or four different keyword research tools, there's, there's negligence, there's no keyword research volume for it. But from his personal perspective, he knows of 10 deals and that representing hundreds of thousands of dollars of business and all of them asked for it in the sales process.
Um, so not everything is keyword research.
Not everything is, is search volume, baby.
[00:26:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And that how many posts we see online of people saying like you can get rid of semrush hrefs and just use ChatGPT for your keyword research.
Go, go nuts. Well, our job will be much easier.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: It's, it's, it's the appropriate usage of the tools at hand that, you know, not thinking that any one tool is the, is the end all, be all.
No tool is going to do the entire job.
[00:26:51] Speaker B: No.
And that's, that's really where I'm at right now a lot with my stuff. Like I just built a internal linking agent that will give suggestions confidence score based on the page library that I fed it like extracted bunch of stuff from the website so it can always reference based on the new content I'm showing it. Give me some internal linking suggestions. But I've seen a lot of people saying it's like, oh, I have one that will automatically add it for you through this WordPress plugin thing. I don't like that. I don't like it doing the work for me like that. Same with my content breeze. I use NotebookLM feed it a ton of information based on the research I've done keyword research looking at the SERPs, looking at the chat GPT response fan query, fan outs. But then NotebookLM kind of develops a template for me, but then I feed it to my content writers or I feed it to the business owners to be like, now you write the article. This is still human intervention. I put this in so many of my articles. Like the large language models, all these tools are great computers, but nothing's going to replace the computer between your ears. That should always be the main one
[00:27:56] Speaker A: you go with Nick Eubanks. When I interviewed him, he said, We've got LLMs in the wrong part of the process.
They shouldn't be writing the briefs and us cleaning up and executing the briefs. We need to give the creative briefs, you know, like we're swapping where that human intervention needs to sit.
I'm going to give you a soapbox to stand on and shout at our fellow SEOs, the other people in the trenches.
What are we doing wrong that we need to get better at?
Ooh.
[00:28:40] Speaker B: I think really just the foundation.
This sounds so weird, but I see so many people, I just saw so many this morning arguing about that LLMs TXT file.
So many people arguing about serving markdown to the AI crawlers versus a regular website to the search engine crawlers. But so many websites I work on. It's like you have content from pre Covid that is completely contradictory to what you say on, like your homepage.
Your internal linking is messed up, you have broken links everywhere. Your images are over a megabyte large. I feel like sometimes we're going too far into being fancy, technological, getting a little bit too developer focused, where we have so much that we need to figure out for the baseline and getting all these websites and companies set up properly before we can really dive into some of that advanced stuff. And all the arguing we do on social media that I try to stay out of the mud just sets us back too far. So it's like just kind of working on being a little bit better, of determining what real SEO is and then what advanced SEO is and going from there, if that makes any sense at all.
[00:29:52] Speaker A: Like, yeah, fundamentals, the basics. I just did a karate tournament and, you know, it comes down to footwork. The people that were in the ring at the end doing the continuous sparring for, you know, two minutes, beating each other up. The guy that won, he had the best footwork. He was staying out of the range of the guys throwing the heavy punches, dancing back in and throwing a tornado kick and kicking him in the head, like at the right moment. But it's the fancy stuff came because he had the fundamentals of movement being in range, understanding it. And I think, yeah, we get shiny object syndrome so bad.
And it's, I think there's just such a mint of, to be made off of CEO's attention through like LinkedIn and others of where does the CEO's focus go this season that, you know, we, we want to, you know, punch back to the AI, AI E, I O, you know, attention spammers that have spent the last year trying to convince, you know, CEOs that they don't need SEO when the market, you know, as a Discovery Channel is still in its infancy. Yeah, it's, it's, it's new and it's distributed and it has an impact, but pretending that it's equal to, you know, it's something that's a game that the scammer's going, going to play. So let's go back to fundamentals and work on our basics and focus on the, on holistic campaigns and making the biggest change.
[00:31:33] Speaker B: Exactly. I've been really fortunate that I've just had some awesome leaders and coworkers in my life that I've never been forced to dive into any of this shiny object syndrome because they say so. And I think a lot of that comes back to again, building that foundation, the transparency that I like to pride myself on that if they ask me, do we need this fancy new AI tool, do we need to focus more on this fancy new AI thing that I read about on LinkedIn, I say no, they're like, cool, then they move on. So I think it's all about developing stuff again you can fall back on that they can trust you with.
[00:32:08] Speaker A: So I asked one of my previous guests to come up with a question for the next guest.
So this is from Brandon Moon.
He does business consulting, helping business owners look towards the end of life of the business. And so his question for you was, as a business owner, as a consultant, what's your biggest pain point as a consultant and how are you overcoming it?
[00:32:42] Speaker B: Biggest one is a consultant and I think I have a quote from one of my clients on my homepage as a testimonial.
I stink about billing. I do not track them enough. And I'm kind of like, ah, you get this, you get these couple hours for free because I forgot to write it down and don't fully remember what I did when I did it.
And sometimes I'm just kind of like, we didn't have the best month this month. I'm just not going to charge you for this. So you.
And luckily I mean, I do this on the side so it's not my main source of income, but if it was, I would need to fix that asap. We are not in the business of doing favors. This is a transaction. It'd be the same as having an electrician or a plumber come. They're not just going to be like oh I. I did this for free because you're a nice guy. This is a transaction. Find proper software or processes to track your work, your time bill people correctly do not fall into the trap that I always fall into of giving things away for free.
[00:33:43] Speaker A: Love it.
Give me a question to ask my next SEO guest.
What's on your brain? What are you looking to find information about?
What is a problem in SEO that you're hoping to solve or want to pick somebody's brain on?
[00:33:59] Speaker B: My biggest thing right now is how much are you diving into the LLM AI reporting?
What tools are you using? How much do you care about it right now? Zero. For me, I have none of the AI tools like I have what comes out of the box with ahrefs. But I do manual searches.
See like okay, we're consistently showing for these terms little spreadsheet. But I'm not sold on any of these big tools that are thousands of dollars a month to track a never ending list of long tail search terms that are search once maybe. So I'm just curious what are people doing? Because on LinkedIn everyone's buying it apparently, but I'm just not sold.
[00:34:50] Speaker A: I love it. I'll make sure to ping you with the answer of my next guest, see what their answer is.
Give a shout out to where people can find you. Find information about your day job as well as your side consulting.
If you're doing anything interesting, published anything.
I think you said you had an article out recently, so obviously publishing somewhere. So let the folk know where to find you.
[00:35:16] Speaker B: Yeah, so I'm mostly on LinkedIn just under Mike Ginley. Then I have my personal website, mikeinlay.com where I just write a lot of my processes. How to's very transparent on there. I also have a side website, digital-eat.com where I highlight digital marketers. Anyone can get a free profile.
You're really just kind of highlighting who you are, what you do, past work, past results, things like that article section is open to everybody on the site too. So you're always able to write anything you want there. I mean yeah, I just wrote a new article there about how to properly hire an agency or consultant just because again like we started this conversation. I've just seen so many people burned. I just wanted something that I could point people out to because I also just send people that article or just tell people, like, I don't have time for a freelance client right now. So here's what you should look for. Here's how you should go about finding one. Don't just hire the first person you see and start sending them money. Like, definitely do some research.
Yeah, those are many places to find me on my digitally profile.
If anyone wants to look. You'll see a lot of the past work I've done. Some of the results. I have a lot of those local clients listed there. Like the two main ones I work with right now. An electrician in Chicago, Excel Electrical Technologies, and then a window company, Welsh Windows plus are my two main ones that I play around a lot with that I'm kind of testing new strategies to improve local SEO and just having a ton of fun doing that stuff. And that's where I post a lot of their information of what I've been doing and some of the results there as well.
[00:36:53] Speaker A: Fantastic. Thanks for stopping by.
[00:36:55] Speaker B: Thank you for having me. This was fun.
