Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, I'm Jeremy Rivera, your unscripted SEO podcast host. I'm here with Lum Kamishi, who's working with Assertio, and that's Assertio AI.
And I'm going to ask you to tell me who you are.
[00:00:16] Speaker B: Hey, thanks. Thanks for the opportunity.
Well, I'm Liu. I'm an SEO guy based in Kosovo. That's in Europe, somewhere in the Balkans.
Been doing SEO for about 11 plus years.
Initially started, you know, with a friend of mine.
He was running a really small agency, you know, with a couple of clients. That's how I got in. I was studying math at the time.
That's when I realized that math is not for me, really. So SEO came to the rescue or not? Maybe the rescue, maybe. Maybe that's. That's the downside of me.
So, yeah, I've been doing SEO since 2024, and right now I'm currently a contractor for an agency based in Scotland where I manage a few campaigns and clients. And also I'm running, building, developing Assertio AI, which is my own project, started off from a few ideas that I had throughout my whole career in SEO. And of course, I'm happy to share that with you here tonight.
[00:01:39] Speaker A: Awesome.
[00:01:40] Speaker B: It's evening here.
[00:01:41] Speaker A: So the time change is a tricky one.
Tell me what it is that you're seeing right now that matters for visibility and AI.
I think of this equation, as you know, there's. There's fundamental core pieces of SEO, and they've all been enveloped over the top with additional extra stuff. So everything that we have done for SEO still matters, but then there's a bunch of extra stuff that's also pushing the balance here and there, and some people have theories as to what that might be.
I'll circle back to some of the research that I've seen come out recently from opalerds and Ben Wills and others that helps clarify a few of those things. But if you're building something, that means you have a pretty good supposition. And as you've been building it, I'm sure that you've been challenged on the output they've been able to get out of your systems. So what's your foundation for AI optimization?
[00:02:54] Speaker B: Well, I'm a, you know, I'm more of a conservative guy.
So I really believe that in the bottom, bottom line, GEO or AEO or these acronyms is basically just extension of good SEO.
And by SEO, I don't just mean, you know, fixing technical stuff and sitemaps and everything like that, but it's, you know, like A cluster of a lot of techniques and a lot of stuff that we used to do to bring the best results.
That includes content, external citations, technical foundations. Of course, that's, that's your baseline.
And yeah, I've been seeing a lot of SEO professionals suddenly selling GEO and AEO because that's what clients are looking for.
They hear a word, they want to get it. And just to make one small remark, I've worked in house at a company for about eight years, so no client work. Right. I was 100% focused there. Then in 2025, I started taking on clients. And that's when I realized, you know, that these people really want to get a GEO service sold to them, right? So that's what they've been hearing online and that's what they want for their company. So if I go around and tell them, you know, that's just good SEO with some extra steps and some, you know, like a holistic approach to SEO, they would not really buy it. You know, I want Geo, I want to show up in LLMs, I want those fancy techniques that everyone's talking about.
But in my opinion, from what I've seen so far and the results that, to an extent I've been able to reproduce, GEO is basically what the web is saying about you, right? So. So the primary factor in LLM and AI rankings are citations, backlinks. And by citations, I do not mean those local directory citations, but citations and mentions from publications, niche relevant publications with relevant content pointing to your site. Not necessarily a link, a link would be really helpful, but a network of publications that speak about your product, your site, your services and whatever.
Reddit used to be really big on this, but last month or so there was this really big crackdown from ChatGPT, you know, suddenly stopped using Reddit as its source, as its main source, or its prevalence in AI answers.
So I would go like, GEO is SEO plus digital pr, and digital PR is something that we, at the company where I used to work first discovered in 2017 18.
And since I've been familiar with that, it was really not something new to me when, when I started learning about these GEO concepts and notions like network theory and stuff like this. So basically just SEO, classic SEO with digital PR and some, some forums, maybe Quora, Reddit.
[00:06:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I think you're right.
Yeah, thanks.
And I can give you some evidence, I can give you some proof.
So I interviewed Ben Wells individually, formerly from Ontolo, and then he started his own thing, OP Alerts.
It's another AI visibility platform attempt.
But he Did a huge massive data study to try to identify, all right, I'm going to go across multiple different models and put a ridiculous numbers of queries in a ridiculous amount of times.
And he came back with a ranking factors study of what these various tests that he tried to look at, you know, relevance of the homepage, overall embedding relevance of the entire site.
He also used vector embeddings to look at backlink profiles of sites as well as branded linked mentions and unbranded citations.
And he found out of not saying that there wasn't statistical signals for on page relevance or things like that, but, but he said that there were 20,000 cases where it was a positive match and zero cases where it was a, a negative match for your backlink profile being from pages that were in the same vector embedding category. So if you're in the, you know, digital marketing space, your links all come from sites in the digital marketing space.
If you're in the home improvement space, your backlinks come from back sites that are in the same vector embedding as being about home improvement.
Yeah, so I'm going to add the link to the show notes if anybody wants to dig into that.
Certainly anybody that wants to challenge it from a data perspective. I spent some time digesting it and understanding it. It makes sense to me how he broke it down of his approach to, you know, hey, your individual page gets turned into text, from text, into numbers. And that model, that vector embedding is actually fairly similar across multiple different models. And so you still end up with that same topical map.
So it makes sense, sense to me that, you know, backlinks are a signal. I think, you know, I think they're used more naively or more generally than in Google because Google has had to add layer and layer and year and year of defense against a very large and very powerful and very effective black hatters who, you know, find the weak underbelly and, and Google, you know, for a long time they played whack a mole and they said, you know, we'll punish you out of existence. We'll use Penguin to punish you for anchor text abuse. So, you know, we know that the link graph and that side of things is extremely helpful for retrieval engines and for relevance.
If there was a moment there where it's like, oh, backlinks don't matter anymore. And I never really bought that. I never thought, you know what LLMs there was too much alignment between, you know, popular and big and authoritative brands, insights that would show up in these citations.
If it was truly just what was relevant and not based off of authority signals, then the citations would be wild. You know, they'd be going all over the deep side of the Internet, you know, and pulling random things from tiny little sites all over the place. But that's not what we see. We see, you know, citations from, you know, relatively normal authoritative sites with, with decent, you know, topical backlink structures.
[00:11:12] Speaker B: Exactly.
Yeah. Actually my, my first work in SEO was Penguin recovery program that I did for, for a client. So those backlinks, we have to mention this, those kind of backlinks that used to work in 2014, of course they do not work anymore and will get you penalized in Google. And LLMs are basically way more primitive than Google when it comes to ranking, ranking in quotation marks, to ranking or selecting or recommending. Because Google, as you said, have been playing whack a mole and has perfected its, its algorithm against, you know, people who did link building for, for a living. And I, I really think that ChatGPT and perplexity and all these guys are really way behind on that and so they're really more prone to, to being manipulated. And it, in fact it's not that links now still matter, but in fact they matter more than five years ago. Right? Because five years ago the big thing was, I remember pre Covid times, the big thing that we were discussing was, you know, Bert and Mom Mum, you know, we, we were panicking because you know, now it's all about content core updates. You know, that's, I think that's, that's the time when they, they started rolling them out 20, 19, 18.
So content was the big thing. And I really think that with the LLMs now link building is doing a resurrection that there's a resurrection of links. But good links, niche relevant, that's links that have similar vector embedding coordinates like cosine similarities really, really close to the site as a topic and to the network as a whole. So I call that niche relevance.
I'm a classic guy.
[00:13:22] Speaker A: So yeah, I wonder what it is that you're putting on offer.
What is it that you, you know, because it is hard.
So going back to the concept of link building, you know, doing it to get links from real authoritative, niche relevant sites.
It's not easy anymore because everything's been so, been so spammed out. You know, we reached a point in the ecosystem where almost nobody responds to an email because you used to be able to reliably, oh, the domain is connected to this email.
If I send an email, I'LL get a response.
[00:14:09] Speaker B: But now they just send you the bill, right?
This is how much would it cost? Personally, I don't do link building anymore. In fact, I haven't done it since pre Covid. But I've managed link builders and I have friends who are good link builders to this day.
And all they can say is that they have to pay now for links, right?
So the cost has gone up and I don't know what that would mean. But
[00:14:45] Speaker A: the other half is of the equation. One part is getting that visibility, but you also have the other side of how do you structure relevance? How do you create robust content creation systems?
What's your mindset around that right now about content creation?
[00:15:09] Speaker B: I'm really, really hands on in content and in technical stuff. That's my area of expertise.
I use a lot of approaches based on the needs of a client. So if a client wants to convert or if a client wants to build topical authority, I'd use different approaches to each of them.
Of course, vector embeddings come into play.
But something I did for home services, home renovation site, a home service site, I mapped out their blog post to their core services, right? And calculated something I call topical proximity, which is the semantic distance between a blog post and service page. So if we have a service page, if we have a service, you know, offering roof renovations or offering bicycle renovations, I would usually create a mini cluster of two or three blog posts that would assist that service page. And of course, keep in mind cannibalization, not in the classic sense, you know, where you have keywords competing against each other. But in my case I used topics competing against each other other. So I wouldn't want a blog post competing against a service page. An issue that I constantly see is blog posts ranking for money queries, right? When in fact a service page should have ranked. So I try to pay attention to this and, you know, the finesses and everything. I try to angle the blog post in a way that it doesn't compete with a service page, but also doesn't roam too far away from what that core service page is all about. So for the money queries, I want the service page to rank and to show up in LLMs. I use the blog posts as just a helper or some wheels for the service page. So topical proximity, cannibalization, avoiding cannibalization for this vector embeddings and cosine similarity is just one layer that I use.
Something that I did is just outlining, outlining formulas because as I said, I'm a Failed mathematician. So why not do some of that stuff here and fail in SEO as well?
So I like to develop my own formulas to calculate similarities, not just by vector embedding and cosine similarity, but also in terms of larger groups of topics.
And yeah, so what I'm explaining here cost the client about 60% of their blog.
So I killed 60% of their blog and added some articles that would also convert but also support their service pages.
[00:18:38] Speaker A: I think there's an under appreciation for the flexibility of the type of content that you can create on your website.
And I think a lot of agencies got stuck in the mindset of hey, I've got a retainer and I can do about four blogs a month with paying this writer and you know, taking SEO. So we fell into the pattern of, well, I need links. So we'll get two links per month and we'll publish four articles per month.
But I think those days of that actually working is long gone.
[00:19:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:16] Speaker A: Would you agree?
[00:19:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree completely.
I promised the client 30 at least 30 new blog articles. And the way that I work, when I work independently, I don't usually go on promising, you know, budget scope things.
I don't care about budgets, I. I care about results. So if I believe that 30 blog posts would bring you better results, then I would promise 30 blog posts and I would map them up. If there's 31, then I would do 31.
And I honestly think that this budgeting may be a thing of the past, but in some cases it may still work.
Especially if in industries or landscapes where there's less, less competition.
Maybe some local niches, some regional markets or like that, that may work.
But you know, turning to those sites where competition is fierce, niches where competition is fierce, I have my doubts on that. But really not for this agency style budgeting. But if it works, it works.
[00:20:39] Speaker A: I'm curious, what are some of the fringe cases that you've seen or you know, outliers, things where the patterns that we've seen just don't kind of seem to fit. Like let me put it another way.
What in SEO is making you scratch your head and say, what is going on?
What is an active challenge for you in the industry right now?
[00:21:11] Speaker B: Well, everything. Everything is a challenge.
What I just described earlier about content creation and building topical maps and content strategies, that's a challenge on its own own because even if you turn to LLMs, the results are polluted.
You can try and tell Claude to assist you on a topical map and the result will be garbage because the web is polluted.
With information of not the highest quality.
Let me put it that way.
Back in my day, you know, we, we used to have the.
I sound old with this back in my day, three times repeating this. Yeah, but back in my day, you know, we had the big guys like Moz used to be really good. Ahrefs used to be really good guys like Rand Fishkin, you know, Cyrus Shepard, Gianluca Fiorelli, all these people, you know, you knew who to turn to right when you, when you had a challenge or something. And right now you just have to figure out on your own you don't know who to rely on, what to rely on.
And pretty much maybe this is the challenge, the fact that you can't rely on anything anymore.
In June, I was at a conference in Croatia.
I was really shocked with the doom and gloom and everything was, you know, AI agents automating your workflow, automating this, automating that, agents building. I don't know, stuff that really maybe sells better, but I'm not sure there's any value value to it.
And so, yeah, I really miss hearing from good SEOs what they're really doing in their day to day.
I had the pleasure of meeting Gus Pelogia there.
[00:23:17] Speaker A: I love Gus.
[00:23:18] Speaker B: Yeah, he was a breath of fresh air both personally and professionally. I had a really good time discussing ideas with him because he works at a job marketplace and, and I have my fair share of experience and specialization in marketplaces. So I had a lot to ask and you know, he filled me with hope for the industry and yeah, maybe there's still people you can turn to, but I'm still hoping that this whole AI cloud or pollution or smoke or fog will go away and will still be back to the again, fourth time old days.
[00:24:04] Speaker A: I feel you on that.
As somebody who started in 2007, I grew up in SEO with the original Vandals.
We were talking real hardcore SEO on Twitter, throwing down conversations and challenges to each other.
You know, before the platform was seen as toxic and you know, there was genuine, it was crazy because you could put up a blog post and people would actually reply with real things to blog posts that you put out there with like, you know, like 800-1200-2000 words worth of content into your comment. And there was a genuine almost expectation of the type of dialogue that we now just automatically in our minds. Oh, that happens on social media. Nah, man. The original social media was, was everybody's different sites. We were, you know, everybody had their sites. They every site had A niche community, people would communicate with each other. You'd echo across on social media and there's just been such a hollowing out as like the bigger networks and platforms have train their algorithm to be able to turn that into monetization, you know, with, you know, it's happened first with Meta 2010, 2012 around the Cam, Cambridge Analytica Times, you, you be shocked that Facebook pages used to be the place for small businesses to engage and network with clients and gain and win business organically. There was organic search within Facebook, there isn't now it's all pay to play, it's all as maximum value to drive up upstairs into meta. And you know, it's like all of it's hardened on almost all the social media channels. Reddit went from being a silly place to a silly and expensive place. And you know, it, it's, it feels like a lot of the, the places where people, you know, because the motivation used to be this for SEO of prove your expertise and you know, say what you're doing, put out unique, relevant stuff and people would challenge it and there'd be conversations.
But with so many new people entering the industry, the motivations to actually put your homework up on the Internet kind of slipped, you know, and as it entered towards 2020, you would get like this class of, you know, SEO publishing from Sasses, from SaaS, mostly from SaaS outfits trying to publish out there to show they were trustworthy so you'd buy their software.
But most folk that were really doing it had moved off of socials. You know, maybe it's in a Slack channel, you know, maybe that most, you know, some of the more active subreddits have a second, second Slack channel behind the scenes where they have communities where they discuss things like you can even, even find, you know. John Mueller replied to me on one of my dark click studies because I posted in the SEO community on Slack, but not when I posted on Blue sky, not because I posted on Twitter, not because I posted on Facebook.
So there's this fracturing, the splintering of, you know, the industry because everybody was disgusted by what was going on at Twitter.
So some people fled to the Fediverse, they went to Mastodon, some went to Blue sky, some are on threads. But that diaspora has just created all of these different enclaves and hubs all over the place. There isn't just one place place anymore. But I feel like that's the truth of, like, of our entire society. We've, you know, shattered everything and spread it all out. And your literal world Perception and experience happens through like a shattering of different digital surfaces that then get algorithmically trained to what you kind of like and then don't surface the other stuff.
So we miss out on a lot of the challenge because we're just kind of shown what we'll like.
[00:28:45] Speaker B: So now the robots tell us what we should like.
And yeah, you reminded me, by the way, I love the SEO community on there. Some really good discussions happen there.
But you reminded me of something. I was looking at some old emails and I saw an email from my friend.
He forwarded it to me and there was this guy who owned like four websites in the gaming world, and he just said, I saw your comment on Moz. I'd like to connect with you and discuss how you could help me improve my sites.
So this was a comment on a Moz blog, right?
And now you've probably seen, I think that this was a good move by LinkedIn, you know, where you can mark comments as AI slop.
I can't even post there anymore because I'll have like four to five comments, just my post copy pasted into some LLM and a regurgitated answer there.
Living in my comment section now. So, yeah, I totally, totally feel you on this. And yeah, well, maybe it's a good thing that smaller communities now exist.
Has its downsides and upsides, but generally I think, I think that's good.
And there's, there's probably a few more slack channels that I'm part of.
And the quality of discussions that happen there is no match for the public sphere, the social media, the LinkedIn, the Facebooks. I mean, Facebook is now complete garbage. Even the groups, even the pages and everything is really, really rotten. I even tried some meta ads.
It's not just organic that's broken. Paid's broken as well.
We live in harsh times.
[00:30:44] Speaker A: There's. It's. You have to fuss out and find certain things, and they only apply just in certain use cases. I know, you know, there's one use case for Facebook pages and it's finding these really active community hubs. Like in Cookeville here in Tennessee, there's a hip Cookville.
And man, if you want to know, you know, if you want to get 35 different small businesses sending messages at you to, you know, fix your house, by all means, post. I've got a. I want to build a deck. And you'll get 70, you know, messages from, from every, you know, every contractor and every indie builder, everybody with a license, without a license, you know, and a bunch of dms.
So if, if you do want a quick response, that does seem to be one thing that does still click. But yeah, that's the only thing is that I've seen is like home service, niche does have, does seem to have for each geography, like one active place where the, the older crowd are like, okay, where do I go to find information? I just want to post a question to have people like, pitch me their stuff. That's Facebook groups or it looks like it's either Facebook groups or face. Yeah, it's Facebook groups. So there, there is that one small sliver of, of light.
But again, I've only seen it work for, you know, like home service or, or niche type of offerings.
And good luck being, you know, one of the 60 contractors messaging that poor person. It's like a one in 60. So I mean, I guess if you're in early, maybe, maybe you got a chance.
[00:32:38] Speaker B: If you're a buyer, that's a dream, right?
Yeah, it's a nightmare for sellers. It's a dream for buyers.
[00:32:46] Speaker A: Yeah, that seems to be about the state of it.
What are you hopeful for in SEO in the next couple of years?
[00:32:59] Speaker B: Well, I'm really pessimistic about some things, but I'm kind of hoping, I'm kind of hoping that this whole AI hype, this whole AI hype will somehow dry out and value will prevail because I really think there's too much AI slop there. There's an abundance of content and we can't see the line between what's valuable and what's not.
And I'm hoping that humans will train themselves and will find a way to distinguish between what's slop and what's not.
People in the industry and SEOs and everyone in the digital sphere is already doing that, but I'm hopeful for the larger population to get educated in that aspect as well. And as for SEO, I just hope that Google will stop lying.
Yeah, we'll be more transparent.
I don't want them to, to share their ranking factors with us, but I also don't want them, you know, let's say, stealing clicks.
And I, I, this was a scandal really. Last week, the, the mock, you know, the, the AI scraper scandal that they were serving mock pages to API scrapers, that was really, really a petty move from them.
And so they're making stuff really harder for everyone.
The quality of the results is not as good as it used to be. Now we have AI overviews.
I'm not really satisfied with what I'm seeing there either.
Probably they will get better with time. I'm really skeptic that AI is going to take our jobs or overtake everything we've built so far.
But I really hope that Google shifts to a human first search engine, because I don't, I really don't think that the AI mode and AI overviews really serve the public, for that matter. And of course it's hurting SEOs with decreasing clicks, with decreasing traffic, especially publishers. Publishers are the hardest hit.
Luckily I moved away from publishing long ago, so I didn't get a taste of that in my own skin. So, yeah, more transparency, better results, better quality, better answers. If you don't have an answer, don't just let your AI decide what the answer is.
And serve the public.
And don't fight with SEOs. Don't pick a fight with SEOs.
Let's work together on this.
[00:36:18] Speaker A: I, I, I'm hopeful for that too. I'm not holding my breath, but I, I can hope for that too.
But I am.
[00:36:29] Speaker B: This is wishful thinking, man.
It's just wishful thinking. I, I think that the, the situation will go from bad to worse.
Yeah, it will get worse. But I hope, you know, when I dream that the other thing will prevail. But I'm not hopeful.
[00:36:52] Speaker A: What makes me hopeful is the kids in my home school tutorial. I was flipping through videos to show them what is Oktoberfest. And some Oktoberfest music came on, but it came with an AI video. And they're like, ah, it's AI. Turn it off. It's awful. Like, oh, those are fake people. I'm like, yeah, it is awful, isn't it? Kids? Like, this is AI Slob. AI Slob. So we chanted AI Slob.
[00:37:23] Speaker B: There is this study I read way, I mean, way before AI ChatGPT came about, something called.
What was the name of the, of the phenomenon?
When the human brain perceives.
[00:37:37] Speaker A: Uncanny valley.
[00:37:39] Speaker B: Yeah, the uncanny valley, Exactly. When the human brain perceives something as being too human without it being human, it freaks out. You know, cartoons may seem cute.
You know, people in cartoons may seem cute, but the more they get closer to appearing human, the creepier they get. So the majority of ads that I see now are AI people, people that don't exist. And it freaks me out. And I'm an adult, so really good that kids are getting freaked out as well about that. So this is hopeful.
[00:38:19] Speaker A: I think it drives the value up on human curation, on human conversation.
My services have certainly evolved towards, you know, leveraging podcasts and leveraging podcasting content for maximum value, both in link building but also certainly, you know, this conversation, this my 3, 4, 5,000 words worth of unique relevant human conversation that is as a Matt Brooks of esoteric puts it, it's, it's human chow. You know, there isn't something like an equivalent. You can't, you know, you couldn't go to semrush and keyword research. Your way to what this article will be like the recap of our dialogue. You know, like first off, Chat GPT is way too optimistic to say any of the half of the things that we've said that are negative. Like it's just biased towards being positive.
And you know, you have to work really hard to get a prompt to give you a convincing like pessimistic view of stuff.
So.
And it's also I found it really difficult to build prompts.
You know, I've done a couple of really good data studies recently like analyzing backlink anchor text and like the first draft of what Claude thinks is a good article about it is just so wishy washy. So you know, like, like doubly cautious about making any sort of statement. I'm like, oh okay, well this is, this is not going to work. Like I'm going to have to take the reins and write most of this because you got to front your representations in. You know, I was wrong. You know, I thought my backlink study would show that exact match anchor text worked still or was like the key way. And it turns out no, it's token match optimization kind of similar to what we what that bigger study that Ben Wills did. But you know, if you token match your anchor text instead of asking for specific anchor text to happen every single time, it's far correlated, it's correlated almost two times better with having a positive impact. So you know, but ChatGPT or Claude was afraid to say that like to make a summary statement of like hey, you know, you're doing backlinks anchor text wrong. You know, it won't, won't come out the gate. So you know, when we're talking to our clients and interviewing them, those should be recorded, transcribed and then used as the framework that we feed these tools to craft great converse, great articles. Like almost 80% or more of the content I make is based out of at least one or more transcripts from my interviews. Anytime I do SEO content and every time that I do content work for clients, I try to get them on, on record and interview them so that I have their voice, so that I have their opinions, you know, and kind of use that as a base for that. I transmute that I use through Claude to create more content. But I just find like native AI stuff is just so wishy washy.
[00:41:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And it's so obvious, you so can tell that. It's just, you know, I never heard this, this phrase before. Yeah, they basically need a lot of food, they need to be fed a lot and they need to be tweaked a lot.
I've used Claude and I've used AI tools to, to write content.
And to be honest, it's been more of a challenge than to just write content myself.
Yeah.
So I'm not really a good writer, but when I read my stuff, it kind of lacks a certain flow because I'm not making native in English.
The conversational tone lacks and you can tell that I'm not native from writing and speaking and everything. But I prefer my own writing to whatever Claude just brings about from my prompts.
Takes a lot of effort to tweak it. And even after you generate articles and, and stuff, you know, you always have to proof check. You have to just put your own hands in and that takes time as well.
So from previously we did a calculation, we calculated the amount of time it takes a content writer to produce a 2000 word article by hand. No AI, not for research, not for anything.
And the average was two articles per three days.
And so with Claude and everything, maybe I've been able to reduce that to two articles per day so we're more efficient. But I'm not sure about quality at all.
That's the biggest issue you can tell. There are tells that humans can read on and can pick up on.
This whole thing with the watermark, I really don't think that matters. I mean, if a human can detect that, of course AI is going to detect it as well.
And yeah,
[00:44:30] Speaker A: as a final question, give a shout out for how people can find you if you're building anything that you want people to go out and buy. If you're available for consultation, let people know how they can contact you and what type of services you can give them.
[00:44:48] Speaker B: Yeah, of course.
Well, you introduced me as Ljumf from Assertio. That's my, my SaaS project.
We talked a lot about AI slop. So I built a Certio to tackle AI slop. I'm still building it, it's still in beta.
Assertio is a, is a content creation pipeline that tries to automate content creation. But that's why I know AI fails, because I know from my own, from my own experience and I've done a lot of effort to tweak it into an answer first content creation machine and so far I've tested it on a few sites and the results in terms of SEO seem to be good. Seem to be better than what just purely AI generated content would look like or human only content would look like. I would say its biggest strength are the research, the research factor because Assertio is a multi agent pipeline and one of the agent only does research.
So it scours the web to find structure for the content at hand and to find information. But as you said, you interview clients before writing content.
I write up their databases on my own and I plug them into Assertio in JSON or CSV. So we have their voice, we have their business information, everything they want to write about. But in the end I usually offer this as a white label service, Assertio because I still have to put my hands in it.
So it builds answer first content that is made to be if you remember, the featured snippets are dead now I think.
But most of my content ideas come from optimizing for featured snippet and now when we optimized for feature snippets we did answer first content based on the query like lists, ordered list, unordered list, paragraphs, tables. And I built this in to Assertio. All of this Assertio is like a projection of my whole decade long experience in content and in everything people may reach me at.
I work primarily with marketplaces, e commerce sites, I've worked with businesses, local businesses nationwide, local businesses, SaaS, companies, pretty much all of these. All of these guys. But I mostly specialize in marketplaces and in large sites.
I've worked with sites that have billions of pages in their index and my best work I'd say is content strategy, content creation, technical foundation building and now of course AI search performance.
[00:48:28] Speaker A: Yeah, fantastic. Well, thanks for stopping by and sharing a heartfelt view.
I'll be providing you with some content from this interview if you want to get that published. I'll be also publishing versions of this Transcript on unscripted SEO.comsearch.com and my personal consulting site, chairman ariveraseo.com.
thanks for stopping by.
[00:48:53] Speaker B: Yeah, that's cool. Thanks for your time. Thanks for having me. Was a pleasure.
