Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hello, I'm Jeremy Rivera, your unscripted podcast host. I'm here with Greg Merrilies who's going to introduce himself and as usual, I'm going to ask him why we should trust him.
I love it.
[00:00:13] Speaker B: Well, yeah, Greg Merrilies Here, founder of studioundesign.com so we're a website agency. We do, we do conversion optimization, we do branding and we do website design. We do, we have a dev team as well, but we're mainly a design business. Right.
Yeah, We've been doing this for. I've had my business since the year 2000, but we've been doing websites for about 15 years now. And we've designed for literally over 2,000 small businesses, medium sized businesses, and we've even designed for some Hollywood A listers like Gary Goldstein, director of Pretty Woman and Sylvester Stallone, which is pretty awesome.
And so why should you trust us? I guess only trust us if you follow us and you love our content and you have a look at our folio and you see the results that we get for similar businesses and then reach out, see if we're a good fit, then you can decide if you trust us or not.
[00:01:06] Speaker A: Nice. I like that answer. Give me a little bit of your personal history. Where are you coming from? Were you in the graphic design game? Did you come at it from marketing or were you wrestling alligators in the outback before you decided? Nah, I should come in and make some websites instead.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: I love it. Yeah, I'm actually a graphic design dropout. Like, I went to university for that but didn't enjoy it because at the time I was working part time. And then it turned into a full time gig in a T shirt factory where I designed T shirts and absolutely loved it from there. I was there for 10 years until my boss had a brain aneurysm and died unfortunately. And so from there two of his clients wanted me to work for him and still doing T shirts in the clothing industry.
And I couldn't decide. So that at that point I decided to start my own business and both of them said yes, they'd be my clients. So from there we designed T shirts and it turned into point of sale and branding and all these things to do with consumer products for about another decade until the clothing industry went vertical. Meaning our clients, who were the wholesalers.
Sorry, yeah, who were the wholesalers, were getting squeezed out by their clients, the retailers, because retailers went directly to China themselves. So all of a sudden, you know, had an office full of.
We had six full time graphic designers at the time and we were going down big time, so I borrowed a lot of money just to stay afloat. And then I found podcasts. And there was one podcast in particular with two hosts, James Schramko and Ezra Firestone, and it was called Think I Get. And basically they said that their logos sucked. And I saw that as an opportunity to design them a logo for free to say thanks for their awesome content. And then that turned into a relationship and yeah, we sort of kicked off from there.
[00:02:53] Speaker A: I love the concept of barter.
I know when I was starting in SEO, one of my first SEO gigs actually was trading, doing SEO and optimization to get my tailor in Riverside ranked number one. And he would give me a custom tailored suit which I wore for my wedding.
A couple years later he got the better deal because the suit doesn't fit, but he still ranks number one.
[00:03:26] Speaker B: Yeah, okay. So good butter at the time, but yeah, it's gotta be ongoing.
[00:03:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
I'm curious.
Controversial. I've heard some people say it. Why do we even need websites? We've got social media sites now, so, you know, like, do I really have to bother with building a whole website? Question mark?
[00:03:50] Speaker B: Yeah, it depends on like your business model. Like if you're just starting out, you probably could vibe code a website and get away with it and just, you know, do some things on social media to drive leads to the website, if at all. You may not need to because you depends on the business model, but you could potentially just get people to book a call with you or buy your stuff off TikTok Shop or whatever. Right? There's heaps of different business models, but if you're a serious business, let's say you've had a business for 10 years, you're either an online coach, you're a service business, you're an E commerce business, you've built a brand and a reputation over that time. You've probably also built a lot of SEO equity, right? But not just the SEO equity, you've probably built brand equity in the marketplace. So if you just decide to put everything on social media, well, that's kind of renting, you know, you don't own that asset. And if you really want a serious business, you have to build an email list. And to do that you need lead magnets. And to do that, you need a website, in my opinion, and have a whole ecosystem of funnels off the back of your website to drive that traffic into, you know, somebody that's going to trust you and reach out when they're ready to buy from You.
[00:04:55] Speaker A: And to point out, Matt Brooks, messioteric, my friend says ChatGPT is your least trained but most popular customer support representative. And ChatGPT is checking the SERPs and looking at your website for information about you. So you gotta kind of have somewhere to put more information out, right?
[00:05:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Exactly. And I don't know, I've listened to a dozen of your podcast episodes and obviously you have a hell of a lot of knowledge in the SEO field and SEO is not there. I don't know why people keep saying that, because obviously the AI get all their information from Google and, you know, the search engines. So, yeah, I see that. Obviously. I feel like a lot of businesses are getting less traffic because of the LLM answers, but you still need to put, you know, content on your own website to give it a chance. And I feel like if anything, amp that up and you'll keep getting great results. But I feel that the thing that's shifted is that you do have to do more social media posts or YouTube or anything to, or, you know, LinkedIn or anything to bring traffic to your website other than just relying on SEO these days.
[00:06:06] Speaker A: One of the points Chris tweet, and he does Calgary SEO.
He was pointing out that one of the problems that people aren't taking into account what the content and the way they approach their site is understanding the intent of the searcher, understanding the intent of somebody that might be discovering it. What do you bring to the table in that analysis in that room when you're discussing building out a site for a new company?
[00:06:38] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. It's such an important thing. Intent is everything because it's pointless taking people to a website and expecting them to buy.
You know, 97% of people are just not ready. So what is their intent when they come to your website? Which page did they come via? Was it a bit of content, a podcast, a blog post, et cetera? Was it one of your landing pages if you're in E commerce? Was it a category page, a product page, et cetera, or was it the home page? And then so literally you have to think about their intent, whichever page they came in, and think what is the most logical next step for them. So we say that there's three different levels of intent as a general bucket. So there's cold, warm and hot. Right? And so if they're cold and they're coming through a content page, you don't want to offer a sales call. If you're a service business or a coach or whatever, you just want to give them something of value in return for an email address to get them onto your list and into your ecosystem.
So that's for cold traffic. So therefore, if you have a look at a lot of blog posts, you know, they, they really need a lot of work because what we do is we like to put lead magnets inside the content. Obviously for mobile that's important but on desktop we have like a quick links, you know, navig on the, on the, on the left side and then on the other side we have a sticky call to action which is generally a lead magnet. We generally put some social proof on that page as well.
And you know, at the very bottom, if they get to the very bottom, you might offer a second lead magnet type of thing. So that's for cold traffic and then warm traffic is for traffic that, you know, they may be on your email list or they may have just been following your content on social media and YouTube and they trust you a little bit more. So sure, offer the cold lead magnet but also offer something for warm leads where they can invest a little bit more of their time. It might be a free video or a free trial or a ten step challenge or you know, just something that's going to take a little bit more of their time because that builds more trust and they're more likely to take action if they've already built that warm, you know, warm rapport with you over, over time. And then for hot leads you don't want to take them through a funnel. You just want to say, you know, buy my stuff. But you can't do that on the homepage. Right. So on the homepage is generally a gateway to get to all of your different offers, your lead magnets, your et cetera and so on. There you might segment have different offers and just little intro to coldly warm or hot, et cetera. But then I would also say that you want to have a page for, you know, for people to buy, whether that's a product or even just book a call, like that's for a hot lead. You know, you don't generally get people booking calls if they're, if they're just warm or cold. So on that type of page that's where you really want to put social proof. And no, no navigation links and just give them that one thing to do which is to buy or book a call or whatever that thing is for hot lead.
[00:09:24] Speaker A: I love that perspective because you know there's, there is a craft to conversion optimization. Yeah, worked with a very large, on a very large subcontract at an agency and they did PCB design. And like, there was a whole lot of thought that we put into this huge content library.
Conscious of, you know, how far down did we think somebody reading this is in the conversion funnel? Is this somebody who's actively designing? Is this somebody who might be looking to use the software? Or are we supporting somebody who already has our software and we want to make sure that they have the latest info? And I think a lot of people don't take the time to diagnose or think about, you know, their website other than you're here, I'm going to hit you with a stick, hit you with a stick and drag you home to my cave. Like nuance. Come on.
[00:10:30] Speaker B: Yeah, couldn't agree more. And I think a lot of people don't look at their analytics, even their Google Analytics, you know, so, yeah, I think it's always important to. There's a free tool called Microsoft Clarity that I think every website should have on there. Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah. And I know, look, we used to use hotjar, which is not free.
And look, to be honest, we've used on multiple sites and found that it did actually slow down the website a bit. So not saying it does for everybody, but Microsoft Clarity doesn't slow down the website. It has heat maps, it has user recordings, like video recordings of everybody that's on your website. It also has some AI built into because it obviously takes a while to.
Excuse me, to review the, you know, the user behavior.
So it has AI built in to give you its recommendations and observations. So that's pretty cool. So I think everybody should put Microsoft Clarity on their website and just review it once a month as at a minimum. And also look at your Google Analytics and you can pair it up and see the pathways that people come in where they exit your website. And then you can hypothesize, which is just a fancy word for saying, you know, work out what you think you could test next. And that's when you know, you can either do ab split testing with some software like vwo, which is what we use, there's other, other tools as well. Or you can test over time. So that just means if you don't have a lot of traffic because you really need at least a thousand visitors, you know, per test, per page. And so if you don't have that traffic, you can test over time. So make some changes, see how it converts and then, you know, see how that converted to the previous same time period. Or do two different tests and test after that time period.
[00:12:07] Speaker A: For the second test, I can't really blame people for not wanting to use Google Analytics because they've literally turned it into a torture device. Fortunately, my friend Matt Mellinger made SEO Gets, which integrates with Search Console, but he just released, I don't know if you know this, he just added integration for Google Analytics data on his paid level. So it pulls in Google Analytics data into that same actually usable interface and surfacing GA data along with Google Search Console data, which has always been the dream. You know, that's what you. I spent so much time in what was Looker Studio and trying to make these templates. It's just so convoluted and difficult.
So anybody listening, go check out SEO. Guest. Fantastic tool has Google Search Console pulling in at the same time. So. And it has content grouping, which I love, which is technically it's in Google Analytics, but. But it takes a very savvy Google Analytics person to properly execute on content grouping to get it to behave the way that you think that content grouping should. So that's super handy. That's a pro tip right there.
Power tool.
[00:13:29] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks for that tip. I didn't even know about that tool, so that's awesome.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: I'll check it out.
Thinking back when I first created my first website, it was on geocities and there was a spinning flaming skull and the background and there was a MIDI playing as soon as you landed on the page. It was awesome.
And then I started using WordPress sites, cut them up in Dreamweaver and move them on. And then people wanted parallax websites. In 2015-20, everything had to have Parallax.
What is the du jour of web design? What are people looking at as far as, oh, my website needs to be able to do this because everybody in the industry is doing this thing with it.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: Yeah. So every year I used to put out content around website design trends. Right. Now, over the years, there's been coming less and less new trends. And this year I did a video on do not follow design trends because nothing's changed. Right. And the problem is designers get bored and so they want to keep coming up with new trends. But the problem with the majority of these trends, like the parallax effects, like immersive design and all these things that have animation and things flying in as you scroll down the page, they don't convert. They just distract people. And so the most important thing on your website is actually the copywriting. And this is coming from a designer. Right. So, yeah. And the copywriter needs to Talk to them, you know, which we can dive into later in a way to let them know that, you know, you have a solution to their problem. And what's unique about you, why should they choose you over your competitors? And do you have proof to back it up?
So these immersive designs with all these parallax, crazy animation and video backgrounds, which are the biggest conversion killer, because A, they slow down the website and B, you know, they completely take your eyes off the copyright.
And not only that, just on video backgrounds, I have a bugbear with them. If you've got a repeat visitor come into your website and they see the same video loop going again and again, like they're so annoyed with that. It might be, you know, you might think it's cool and all those effects may be cool and you'll probably win a design award with that fancy website. But have a look at your conversions, and I would say 90% of the time, it won't convert. As well as a static website with a little bit of movement, a little bit of parallax is fine.
But, yeah, I wouldn't copy those design trends anymore.
[00:16:05] Speaker A: I can now quote you and say copy is more important than design.
Talk about some of the decisions, because, I don't know, I've done so many website audits and like, where did this copy? Why did you choose to write this? I can't even tell the difference between you. You say that you do brand redesigns for restaurants, but your website looks like you're just a restaurant, you know, you haven't taken the time. We're the best, you know, we've got the best customer service. You know, we'll get results done quickly. What results? What is it about the sales mentality that is so opposed to literally saying instead of services, SEO services.
Yeah, instead of services and Cookville remodeling, What is that mentality where you're just playing these games of not saying what it is that you do?
[00:17:07] Speaker B: I have no idea. And they're going to lose every time because clarity trumps everything else, right? So it has to be clear, here's what we do, here's why you should choose us. Here's how you're going to benefit, right? So that's absolutely crucial. I mean, look, you want to have copy that appeals for SEO, obviously, so it ranks well, but it also needs to have some benefit in, let's just say, the main headline, like, here's what we do and here, here's how it's going to help you. I feel like that's absolutely Important. But, yeah, I don't know why people do those weird things with copy and they make it all about them. And I do love the book Building a Story Brand by Donald Miller. Where it's meant. You're meant to be positioning your business as the guide and your prospects and your clients as the hero. So every bit of wording on your website needs to reflect that. So it's just a general thing you can do. Anybody could do this on their own website. Count how many times you use the word I or we versus the time. Sorry, how many times you use you or your. And yeah, if you're using more ioi, then it's more about you, and it needs to be flipped to be more about how you can help them. So use more you and your in there.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: I literally just had my wife ask, what is first person versus second person and third person writing? And I was like, oh, okay. So second person is where you're putting somebody into the narrative and speaking to them. Like you. You should. You be using that a lot in your copy.
And the way that you're phrasing your content, crafting your content, particularly on service pages, I'm curious, when it comes to, like, local service businesses, lawyers, you know, construction, you know, remodeling, they're kind of commoditized. So how do you approach making those unique? What is it? You know, how do you to, you know, because the difference between Realtor in Cookeville and Realtor in Nashville, you do this, you sell the home the same way that the laws are pretty much the same. Once you focus in on that creation process to draw something unique out of
[00:19:20] Speaker B: that, it's a great question, and it takes a lot. So it's a mixture of. It's what we call brand positioning. Right. So to find out what that uniqueness is, there's a whole bunch of ways you can go about it. So one might be, you know, for a start, you mentioned a lawyer website. We do quite a few lawyer websites. And so one of these lawyer websites that we did, which is yoshalaw.com if anybody wants to check it out, based in Indiana.
So most of our clients are in the US Even though I have an Australian accent.
And so what we did with them was, sure, we got a copywriter that, you know, interviews them, interviews their clients to try and figure out why their clients choose them over their competitors. But apart from that, you can. Anybody can look at the testimonials or reviews of your, you know, your business, and you'll put that into ChatGPT for instance, and you'll find some recurring themes in there about what people say about you guys, because not many businesses know themselves what is unique about them. Right.
And so therefore, yes, with lawyers, there's always, you know, no win, no fee and all that sort of stuff. Right. But it might be also the people behind the brand, the experience that they've got, the, you know, they might have been in business for 50 years or whatever it is. On top of that, look at their results. Because, you know, some lawyers just have these impact metrics saying we've got $1 billion in recovery for, you know, accidents or whatever. But if you look at individual case studies, and most of these law firms don't have these on their website, but we put them on because then you can tell the story that result. So here's this person's situation before they came to us. You know what their problem was? They had a car accident.
Insurance offered them $50,000. Then we went and saw them. And you have a video for this as well, some really good videos on Yoshua Law's website to get that emotional hook in the video and then talk about the results you help them achieve. And so, yeah, I believe that's all part of it, the results you achieve. But then also, yeah, don't just have that headline like let people know what is unique about you and that comes out of the copywriting process and the reviews, et cetera, and have a section on your website that talks about what is unique about you. But don't say, we're the best, just talk about whatever that uniqueness is. And it is hard to find, but you can find it. It's in there somewhere.
[00:21:43] Speaker A: Lead magnets is the phrase you dropped earlier. Tell me, what are lead magnets in this day and age? I have an idea, but I'd love to hear your raw take.
[00:21:58] Speaker B: Absolutely. So we do a lot of vibe coding for lead magnets these days because gone are the days where people just want to download a PDF and put in the PDF graveyard because they'll never get to it, even though we still do that as well. And they do convert well, however, people want quick results. So these days you can just vibe code and we use cursor, and you can use, I think, even ChatGPT or Claude these days to get some basic vibe coding. And so what we're trying to do is give people a quick result. So you have an interactive type of lead magnet that needs to be something that's helpful for them and useful to your prospect. But, yeah, you might just ask them A whole bunch of questions and give them a score or give them a result based on that, and you get that instantly. So, yeah, that's how. That's what we do with the lead magnets these days. I mean, there's various other lead magnets depending on the business type, but that's generally a new thing that we're doing these days.
[00:22:50] Speaker A: I like that because, I mean, it's one way to take advantage of the new technology in a niche sort of way, you know, like you said. Yeah, you can vibe code together a site, you can throw something in Claude and host it on a domain. But if you're taking something more practical, there are still ways to leverage AI processing power and come up with things that Quite frankly, in 2015 would have been out of the reach, out of anything other than very large brand or budget. They could assign a dev, a skilled developer to come up with even a basic interactive widget.
So taking advantage of that. I love that concept.
[00:23:36] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And just to give people an idea, there's one website, enterprisefitness.com their personal training business.
So we did a macro calculator for their clients or their prospects to figure out how many macros of the three things, whatever they are, they need each day to meet their targets. And yeah, that has just been an incredible lead magnet for them. And before that, they had things like a free excerpt from his book and like another PDF download, but none of them convert anywhere near as well as we did. 2 Now, another interactive lead magnet as well. But, yeah, check them out because they're designed like they're on WordPress. And so we have them vibe coded and then our developers just skin it as per our custom design so they look completely custom and they are, you know, nice.
[00:24:28] Speaker A: Well, I mean, they just need a St. Patrick's Day meals that perfectly balance macros.
You got meat, you got carbohydrates, you know, plenty of fats. So just eat a St. Patrick's meal every day. I've done it for the last five days as an experiment.
So, so far, so good. Lost a pound, but we'll see if I keel over from too much sodium or not.
[00:24:53] Speaker B: Excellent.
That was funny.
[00:24:57] Speaker A: I'm curious.
Let's break out the soapbox.
I'm going to put it in front of you, you step on it and speak to the people you choose, the people use. Would you want to talk to, you know, potential clients? Do you want to talk to Internet users in general, or do you want to talk to fellow website builders? What's been something that you're passionate about and you want to get it off of your mind.
[00:25:23] Speaker B: Small businesses. Yeah, in general, what can I say to small businesses?
Look, I mean, obviously we do website design and you know, obviously that's, that's what, you know, what we, how we make our money. But these days, like, sure, you can use Vibe coding, right? But I believe that you still need to if you need to invest in the future of your business. And I feel like if you do Vibe code a website, it will negatively affect your, your brand. Now you don't need to go fully custom like a service like ours. But yeah, just think like how, because if you have a look at any Vibe coded website, to me they all look the same. They all look super boring, you know, and I follow a lot of AI experts on YouTube and there's so much crap on YouTube about how vibe coding is the next thing for websites. And honestly, don't get me wrong, we're using Vibe code in a way to try and turn our Figma custom designs into, you know, coded WordPress or Webflow or Shopify pages. But it's not easy. It still requires a proper developer to get in there and tweak things. But yeah, just be careful because I feel like it will ruin your reputation if you just get a vibe coded website without putting a lot of, you know, design behind it, like some custom design that's unique to your brand. So we, I have a book, Next Level Website Design. And if you go to nextlevelwebsitedesign.com There's a free resources tab and in there I've got my entire book uploaded to custom GPT plus a whole bunch of other free resources, book companion, whatever. And so if you use that custom GPT, you can ask it anything to help you create content to, you know, create sections for your website. It won't design it, but it'll give you a pretty good blueprint for you to hand to another designer.
[00:27:04] Speaker A: If you want, I can give you backup. From Stanford University, they did a study that showed that even with, I think it was three or four specific prompts that are supposed to get diverse, they're supposed to spark diverse, creative, different answers.
What they found is that all of the major chat models returned a tyranny of same sameness.
They made the same cultural references, they referenced the same materials and, and a uniform answer. A hive mind mentality is what kind of emerged from that creative process when if any human actually answered those prompts, they're specifically designed to spark creativity. And that is one of the flaws of trying to use a tool based off of prediction and mathematics for creative purposes. It can only be as creative as its baseline training material, which at this point, there is no new material.
Everything before 2015 is the pure research training data set. Everything after that. I don't know if many people realize this, but challenge like tools, LLM tools have been active, have been used at large scale by marketing companies and others. So since 2015, LLMs have been kind of polluting the Internet with more and more sameness, more and more repetition. And especially in the past three years, with the huge popularity explosion of ChatGPT, that snake eating its own tail effect is starting to take effect where you're just getting, you know, it's sighting itself through three or four different layers. You know, somebody taking the same factoid gets republished in this article, then that gets crawled and republished and then part of, part of what gets cited. So just be aware that, you know, there, there isn't, you know, a magic creative button behind the scenes. Anybody who is working in digital marketing, anybody who has a website, should take the time to read Wolfram Alpha's breakdown of how ChatGPT actually works as a model to see, hey, it is literally just predicting the next word in the sentence every single time.
It is like a parrot squawking. It is not speaking English, it is speaking math.
Now we've refined it to a very high degree at this point. We've had multiple iterations and it goes back and it's pretty reliable. And it's not making gibberish sentences. No, not straight gibberish. But anybody who's done SEO has run into pure hallucinations. And we're going to continue to have that problem of the yes man of the Internet just agreeing with things that aren't true. You know, like if Chachi PT was whispering to Bilbo Baggins, we probably would have kept the ring. When Gandhi of why shouldn't I keep it? Yes, you should keep it. It's been in your possession for a while and yes, it's dangerous, but there's this inherent bias of the system towards yes, on top of just the predictive nature of it cannot be clever outside of referencing things that people have already input. That was clever to begin with.
[00:30:59] Speaker B: And the thing that annoys me is that people can't see the patterns that ChatGPT is producing in their video scripts or their emails. There's so many patterns. It's just, you know, there's always a section in there. It's not this, it's not this, but it's that like just look for that pattern. You'll hear it all the time now that I've mentioned it and it's just a dead giveaway but I'm surprised that humans can't see that pattern. They stop and they should stop using it. They should at least edit the content. Right. To get rid of these things that are so obviously chatgpt.
But apart from that, I don't know why LLMs can't design very well yet. Don't get me wrong, they can do graphics and ads and you know, some basic stuff but to me it can't do unique custom design. And I think it comes back to the point that just said it's the snake eating its tail is just regurgitating stuff, you know, and it's getting worse over time. So I believe there's always going to be room for, you know, a decent business, design business to have decent level clients. Maybe the bottom of the market will drop off but there's always going to be brands that need proper custom branding and I don't believe, I don't know why, but LLMs are nowhere near it when it comes to good quality unique design.
[00:32:10] Speaker A: Branding is the key. Google itself has turned in the past few years turned up the screws and the requirements for those signals to exist that you are a brand both in terms of, you know, on your site and references in third party sources. You know, you, you can't rely on, you know, just getting links. You need links that represent your brand. You need branded anchor text to, to, to match the content that you have. So on the SEO side that's equally true and I think in order to stand out, yeah you gotta, you gotta have more than just the next guy's weapon and you know, everybody can get a $20 subscription to Claude or ChatGPT. So if you are going at that basic level you don't want to do the same as what your competitor is doing and that's exactly what these LLM tools are going to do.
[00:33:15] Speaker B: That's yeah. So true. Yeah. Any niche now if you look at an LLM website a, you can spot them a mile away. But yeah, there really is no differentiator. So yeah, just be careful if you're a business out there, you know, like yeah, you ruin your brand unless you really, yeah, think about it properly and try not to be like anybody else in your niche.
[00:33:35] Speaker A: Well, I appreciate your time and you being somebody who isn't exactly like everyone else in your niche.
So thanks for coming on. Give a last shout out to your business if there's any last resources that you want to mention that would be helpful to my listeners.
[00:33:51] Speaker B: Thank you. Yeah, so studio1design.com and that's the numeral one.
And if you want to ask me a question, just send an email to gregtudioindesign.com we're on all the socials, but yeah, that's not really where I hang out.
But yeah, just resource, I would say go to nextlevelwebsitedesign.com forward/free and get all the free stuff.
[00:34:12] Speaker A: Fantastic. Thanks so much, Greg.
[00:34:14] Speaker B: Thank you so much. Jeremy.
