Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hello, I'm Jeremy Rivera with the Unscripted SEO podcast. I'm here with Scott Gelber. Why don't you give yourself a quick introduction and then we'll be off to the races.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: Sounds good. Thanks for having me, Jeremy. So my name's Scott Gelber. I'm the founder of SRG Marketing. We're a growth marketing agency that helps B2B SaaS startups. Typically scaling B2B SaaS startups generate more inbound sales meetings through Google Ads. And I think the key word there is qualified sales meetings. So what we're really focused on is driving qualified leads through the channel and making sure they actually show up to a sales demo with these, with these customers so that they can create predictable pipeline through the channel. Prior to starting the agency, I spent seven plus years as a growth marketer inside of early stage B2B SaaS startups. And so now I'm kind of playing the role that I played inside of companies as a, you know, as a.
[00:00:54] Speaker A: Got it. So that's kind of a rarefied niche. There's a lot of different types of sites out there. Is there a reason why you prefer SaaS as a business model that you can help promote, or is it the structure or is it just what you're familiar with?
[00:01:09] Speaker B: Yeah, it's more so what we're familiar with. I'd say our strategy really applies to any B2B company that exists. It's just really where my background is. That was kind of the first landing spot was other SaaS companies, and I think our story fits well for them. I will say there are some positives to working with SaaS companies. You know, usually if they're funded, they have pretty aggressive revenue targets. So they're looking to spend, to grow. So that's always a good place to be in as a, as a performance marketer. People who are willing to spend, budget to test, who want to move fast. Yeah, so there's a benefit to that. The downside is, you know, a lot of, a lot of these software companies are. A lot of times they're, they're very new software categories or they're the first to market. And when that happens, a lot of times people aren't really searching or Google doesn't understand what they are searching for. So it takes a little bit of creativity to get the algorithm to work correctly for you.
[00:02:03] Speaker A: Yeah, no, that definitely makes sense. I've run into that scenario a lot of times in SEO of, hey, we're not a space heater, we're a space cooler. You're a space cooler.
[00:02:13] Speaker B: Like.
[00:02:14] Speaker A: Yeah, we're not a swamp cooler. We're a portable evaporative cooler. But we want to be a space cooler. Nobody's searching for space coolers.
You gotta, yeah, you gotta go with like they, that client, they didn't want to actually use swamp cooler at all. They saw it as a negative for their brand. And we tried it. We got them ranking number one for space cooler after a year, but then they begged us to change it because they just weren't getting the reach. So 100% exactly what you're saying.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
The principles with Google Ads and SEO are very similar. Right. It's showing up for the right search. Search terms where your buyers are.
[00:02:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:57] Speaker B: Kind of to your point. Something we run into a lot is a lot of companies want to call themselves something.
[00:03:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:03] Speaker B: When in reality the market is searching for them as something else. And that's always like a push and pull because the company be like, well, we think we're kind of, we, we believe we're this, we're not, we're not just any CRM. We're the, we're the sales. Whatever, whatever. And then you're like, hey, that's great. But in reality, all your competitors, what people are searching is this. So you have a, you have a choice. It's, it's try to be this unique category or just call yourself what people think you are and get, and get consistent lead flow. So I'm a fan to start of the lead flow. But you know, sometimes you don't win that battle.
[00:03:41] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean sometimes you just have like, it's not that it's new, it's just, it's obscure. It's like medical affairs or like what, what do you do when it's like, you know, waste oil, heater management, like what you do with small markets. That's one of the big challenges. So as far as strategy for if you are in a smaller niche market, how does that impact what you do on the ground?
[00:04:06] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think, well, I think there's two elements to it. One is, is your market too small? Right. So before we work with anybody, we're going to do the keyword research to see, you know, is there meaningful search volume around terms that specifically describe your business. Sometimes there's just not. Right. And so like just off the bat, like if you're, if you're too, too specific, we just won't work with you. Like we can, we can see it. You can see through the keywords, like it's not going to work. And what we're looking for is high intent search terms.
[00:04:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:36] Speaker B: That really describe your brand. So I, one of the companies I worked at was in the logistics space.
It was the first of its kind ever. It was a very revolutionary concept in the logistics space.
Very cool company. But no one's searching for it obviously because people search for what they.
[00:04:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:56] Speaker B: If that's the case, if it's too niche, then, you know, I would just say, hey, like, don't do this. There's, there's better approaches.
If there is decent search volume and you are niche, that isn't always the worst situation because what we focus on, and depending on your price points, a lot of, a lot of SaaS companies, a lot of B2B companies have pretty big average contract values. They can be anywhere upwards of $15,000 a year to $50,000 a year. So when you're playing in that market, usually what's actually more important is not getting a massive volume of leads, but making sure you're getting a consistent flow of the right leads. And that's what we focus on.
[00:05:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: So when we're actually working with a lot of more niche companies and we, and we do see the search volume, we're usually encouraged by that because typically what we have found is that the keywords that maybe have a little bit less search volume but really describe what you do, those actually bring in the best, the best conversions and the people who more likely convert to sales opportunities. So kind of to, to answer your question, it's really focused on a quality over quantity strategy. We might not get hundreds of leads, but we might get 5 to 10 of the exact right leads. And that's kind of how we, we focus on those niche markets.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: Yeah, that's hard because sometimes you have like a super niche, like you do packaging, but it's for cannabis. Super niche, but also. So you're aiming to, for something like that, like find the high intent. How do you match that disparity though between the high intent and the lack of volume?
[00:06:27] Speaker B: Yeah, again, I think, I think there's like, there's, there's levels to this, I think typically, and it depends on the business. Again, like if a business is selling an average deal size of like lower than $5,000, then this strategy doesn't really work. Right. You need, you need some volume there to like, to get it going. So a lot of the companies we work with though, again are like greater than $15,000 average annual deal size. Some are even bigger. And usually what we're looking for is just anywhere between like we're looking for at least like 2,000 monthly searches on high intent keywords that specifically describe them. So again, anything lower than that, you probably won't get that much volume. But anything above that, we feel like you will get a decent amount. And again, for a lot of these companies, they sell something very specific. Right. They'll work with construction companies that, you know, have this certain technology and are this certain size.
Again, like we can get them a lot of leads, but to get them the right leads is really hard. So for a lot of them, getting them like 5, 5 to 10 sales opportunities of the right people goes a long way. And when you're targeting these niche keywords, if you're seeing that much volume, you usually can get those, those type of results.
[00:07:46] Speaker A: Okay, well what's your usual mix of like, what are some of the components you're putting together to execute on these campaigns?
[00:07:55] Speaker B: Yeah, so I think there's a few key elements. So the first thing is setting up their tracking infrastructure. So not only setting up conversion tracking inside of Google Ads, but a lot of our customers are using HubSpot as their CRM. And even if they're not, we want to have some connection from the Google Ads platform to their CRM. Because the key thing in the Google Ads platform, you can only see the number of conversions by keyword, but you can't see who they are. So I could get you 20 bots from India as a conversion and that might look good in the platform, but then when you look at the actual data, it's like, okay, actually that keyword is really bad. It doesn't get me the right people. Yeah, so that's the first thing we want to set up so that we can actually see that data of who's converting. And the second thing I mentioned is really focusing on high intent niche keywords. Keywords that have words like software services, app platform. These indicate that people are actually researching a software solution and have a much higher, have much higher conversion rate on your website. The other things that I think are key are especially with software companies, there's a lot of hype around Google's AI features these days and there's a lot of like automated bidding strategies.
We haven't seen those work very well for, for our clients. I think part of it, part of it is because again, some of these softwares are so new, I don't think Google really like understands what it is, who are the type people that want it. So when you tell Google, go maximize my campaigns for conversions, it just brings in all this like garbage. So what we found is doing manual bidding strategies has worked the best and also doing really tight keyword matching.
[00:09:38] Speaker A: Again Google in specific small group batches. And is there like a top level amount of keywords you're putting into that? Because I mean I like that approach but it does multiply the, the work to create the customized ad if you're taking your keyword list and dicing it super heavy. So how do you balance that as a workflow?
[00:10:00] Speaker B: Yeah, and that's such a good point that I, that I forgot. We group the keywords into single theme ad group. So everything that's kind of related gets a related ad and a landing page it drives to. We probably won't do more than like four or five of those just cause when you're starting out, it's just a lot of, you know, like you could do like 20 perfect, you know, ads for each keyword, but probably a lot of work before you even know which keywords are the right ones. So trying to group them into themes of like 5 to 10 keywords usually helps you get good quality scores. And then the last thing again I'll just mention kind of rounding about is once we have this live again, it's looking at that data in your CRM to say which keywords actually brought in the right people and which keywords consistently. You know, get a sales meeting against customers and then you're going to optimize your account based on that.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: So is it, is it all Google search ads singularly or do you also dabble in display or go onto other networks? Like is it all of the pieces or is it, is the intent to get down to the intent and capture that portion of, you know, I'm trying to get the other piece on the organic side on SEO, you know, capturing the intent for those high volume SEO keywords, but you're capturing the intent, that fraction that's captured by those ads. Which to be fair, there's probably more ads now on Google search keywords than any point in history. I mean I have clients who are trying to rank organically and you can't even get above the fold without three call ads, local service ad, paid ad, like the entire. And then an AI overview which has now is going to have paid spots in it too, which is probably good. It's good for you. It's bad for me.
[00:11:45] Speaker B: Yeah, it's good. It's good and bad. Right? I like, I like, I'm a big, I'm a big proponent of SEO. Like I think for every business that it makes sense for they should be doing it. I think there's trade offs in both strategies. And also I don't think they, I don't think they go hand in hand. Right. I don't think they have to be one or the other. But obviously if you can rank organically, right, you're, you're probably, you're probably getting higher quality leads and you're not paying anything to get those leads, which is huge. But it also takes time, right? It takes six to nine months to rank for those keywords. And I think, I think something that's interesting with Google Ads is it can really inform your SEO strategy because you can start testing right away to understand what keywords are bringing in the best people and at the most volume and the right quality. Because what can happen on the SEO side is, is sometimes a keyword looks really good, but then when you actually test it, either the wrong type of people are coming in or maybe there's like a completely different market that's actually searching that. And so what would stink is like you spend six to nine months ranking for a term and then find out, okay, actually these are the wrong people coming to the page. So by using ads to start, you could actually have a little confidence in saying like, okay, this keyword consistently every month the last three months has brought in some really great leads. Like, we should spend six to nine months optimizing organically.
[00:13:05] Speaker A: That definitely makes sense. Does it ever work the other way of like you're looking at, oh, hey, you're currently ranking this page, this article and for this service at the top, do you ever try to double dip and look for top ranking keyword phrases or pages that you can slip into that campaign?
[00:13:24] Speaker B: Yeah, it can work that way. So a lot of times companies, and I'm sure you see this, companies are already ranking on like the first or second page for keywords, even though they didn't really put any, you know, particular effort into it. Right. Maybe they've just been around for a long time. Yeah, it's always fun to tell them like, hey, did you know that you're already ranking for this keyword? And they're like, what? Like, but, but. So there are scenarios where, where that's the case. If I hear that they say, hey, we are getting a good amount of, you know, demo requests from organic traffic. And then I see like you're actually ranking for some, for some high intent search terms organically that I think would, it would make sense. You get demo requests from it then. Yeah, that's gonna be the first thing I rank, it's like, hey, let's just, let's just bid on the thing that's already working. There's actually a company I'm talking to tomorrow where that's the case. There they are ranking for like a specific, a very specific high intent search term.
[00:14:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:20] Speaker B: They have told us that they are getting decent organic demo requests and traffic from it. So like the first I'm. Yeah, first thing is gonna be like let's just, let's just do that. Right, because, and you know this right?
As you rank lower on the first page, there's like a diminishing return of the click share you get.
They're, you know, they're towards the bottom. It's still great. But they could be getting more of that. Right. They just kind of bid at the top.
So yeah, that's.
[00:14:48] Speaker A: Cross pollination between SEO and PPC is. It's not as common as I think that it should be. And I think there's a lot of really good technical SEOs who have siloed themselves to always. Their default tool is screaming frog. And I think there's a lot of PPC people who I've talked to who haven't talked to an SEO in ages. One thing I'm interested in impacts both sides is behavior on, on page of the user because I think that an ignored piece of SEO is considering that landing page. You know, a lot of SEOs have their focus on I want to get them to the page and then they forget what they, they do on the page matters. And then you're right that connecting to the CRM and further qualifying and understanding and connecting. Was this the right person that filled out the form or not isn't always a matter of the keyword. It's how you're qualifying on the page. So what's your top two landing page concepts? What things do you always check off when it comes to landing page? Because that's going to be, you know, the same in SEO and PPC for a lot of, for, for that element of like moving the ball, qualifying the prospect.
[00:16:07] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think from a landing page perspective, one of the things that's super important with Google Ads is just making sure that that landing page is relevant to the ad and what the person's searching. So if someone is searching and this is pretty basic but like if someone's searching for content marketing software, that word, your ad should have that word in it. And that word should also be like front and center somewhere in the headline on the page. And I think what that it sounds super basic, but I think what it does is it just kind, you know, we have such short attention spans these days on the web. Then I think it does two things. One is it just quickly lets someone know, hey, you're in the right place. You were searching for content marketing software. Yeah, I said on the ad this was content marketing software. And I'm showing you this content marketing software. So I think that's kind of part one. I think just making sure that the page speaks to what the person is searching. With a lot of, a lot of software platforms and just companies in general, they're offering a lot of different services. And what a lot of them do is if they, if they're, if they're selling a lot of different services, they're bidding on all those keywords, but then the ad just says the same thing, and they send a one landing page or one homepage page, and they're missing an opportunity, Right. A very simple opportunity just to make sure it's relevant to what that person's searching. So that's part one.
Pretty obvious, but, like, you'd be surprised how many people don't do that. The second thing is, from our experience, and I don't think I'm the only one, I don't think I made this up. I think it's common knowledge a lot of times people are not scrolling past the top fold. So I think in the top fold, you want to very clearly state, like, what is the value you offer to your ideal customer? You want to have the form up there as well on the landing page. And I think you want to try your best to also layer in some social proof right in that top fold. So like, like a customer logo bar. Like, I think you want that all to be seen right there because it's going to do one of two things. One is people are going to look at and be like, okay, this company's legit. I'm looking for this solution. This comes legit, like request demo, or it's going to give them kind of that, like, confidence to say, this looks interesting. I should, I should continue scrolling. So those would be the two main things. The third thing I'd say is you got to balance this and I think this with SEO as well, because you want to have the keywords on the page, right? So that, so that the bots pick up, you know what it's about. But it's also really important to talk about the benefits and outcomes that your product gives to your client, not just the features. So trying to balance, trying to balance that is a little bit of, you know, it's a little hard, but trying to use both because with Google, right, they're giving you a quality score and they're, they're analyzing your landing page. So it's the same thing, right? You still kind of need to just use, you need to play the game a little bit, but at the same time make sure you're talking to those benefits and outcomes so that it's persuasive to get, to get the user to convert.
[00:18:57] Speaker A: No, that's important because we on SEO land, we definitely get lost in our own heads of, okay, I need this header to say this and I need this phrase to occur, but it's also about that connecting and communicating like the feature, the benefit. And you're right, like the social proof too of like we need to communicate authoritativeness and relevance. And I think optimization for service pages kind of should follow in that at those same steps. Like it should be as hard hitting of a page as a landing page that you're willing to pay ads to send traffic to. Like it should be niche down this service. It, you know, social proof here raises your income. I think what's interesting is many people like miss out on the pyramid of value. And I was talking to Colby Wechter in an interview last week and he was saying the very lowest thing that you can actually offer them is money. You money's at the bottom of the tier. Then the next tier is time, the next is effort and at the very top is identity. Like you want to. This goes back to the Mad Men principle of like, are you a successful person? Successful people drive Mercedes, you know, so you're selling the image at the top of it. So like your want to have like a layered pitch of like on your service page, on your landing page that tones in to those features and the value proposition for it. Like what is your usp but hitting those different aspects, is it going to save them time? Does it make them make their organization easier to run or does it make them a successful widget owner? You know, you got to adapt it to your niche. But I think that concept follows through and I think we, we miss it in SEO. And I, I know I've seen ads and landing pages that are just horrible that totally miss the mark.
[00:20:52] Speaker B: Yeah, you're totally right. And it's hard because you want to hit those like from SEO, you want to hit those like key, key pillars of it, right? Because I think on the flip side too, right, if you write this great, you know, website page that does speak to everything you mentioned, but it doesn't do the basics of ranking for the keyword. You're looking for putting the keyword in the slug, the H1, the H2. Right. Like then you also don't rank. So, so like there's, I think there's a balance there if you're thinking about both sides of it.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: I'm curious from, does long form content ever play a role in your strategies or is it mostly headed towards landing pages?
[00:21:35] Speaker B: Yeah, so not, not often is there long form content involved. The reason being is like truthfully, like clients want to see results fast and you kind of just gotta prioritize the, the high intent.
I will say there is a, there's a role with long form content in Google Ads if you're taking more of a long term approach.
So I think one of the things, another benefit of using the two in conjunction is kind of to the point you made earlier, that the website pages should be in a place where they're optimized for the keyword. And if something is optimized for the keyword and you're betting on that on Google Ads, then in theory that webpage should also be like really a really good page to drive people to. And a lot of times we have tested driving paid traffic to web pages, website pages versus landing pages. And when someone has a good website like that, where they have their product catalog built out on the site, they have like really good pages that focus on those keywords, they're SEO optimized, you know, well designed, good copy. The website a lot of times performs better than the landing pages. And I think, I think part of the reason of that is, is that people, I think it's hard for someone to convert just on one page. I think it's like really hard. I think people want to like browse the site, they want to like see more features, they want to see case studies, they want to do a lot of things.
So sometimes I actually think driving to the website drives higher conversions. But that's if it's really set up well. Right. Which a lot of times it isn't.
So a strategy I've done in the past is one, you set up your website pages to optimize for certain keywords, but then you drive paid traffic to those pages. And I don't have any, like, I haven't read anything that says this is true. But I believe that if you do that, you rank faster organically. And I think the reason that is is because you're sending it a lot more traffic and I think Google is still kind of like you said, they're analyzing the experience on that page and if you're driving a lot of traffic there and people are staying on the page, they're not bouncing, they're converting. I think you're just giving more signals from an organic perspective to Google. It's like, hey, I should also be ranking organically for this. So that's a strategy I've done a lot and I can't say for certain that we ranked faster, but it did seem like we ranked quicker from it. So following that principle, a lot of times what we'll also do is if someone has like a opt in that is being searched. So for example, a company we worked with was selling COI tracking software to construction companies and they had a COI tracking Excel template and there was a lot of search volume for that. And so we not only set the page up for the opt in to organically rank for that, but then we drove a ton of traffic to it and before you knew it, we were then at the top of it organically. So I think that principle can also follow for blog posts and if you're seeing trends that certain blog posts are actually converting people to demo requests.
[00:24:43] Speaker A: Right.
[00:24:44] Speaker B: I would follow that same principle. And if I was like at a, if I was full time at a company and had a little bit more of a longer term approach, sure, I would be doing that.
[00:24:52] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean it makes sense. And I'm curious as far as the tie into like capturing that email and like what do you try to communicate to the company to make sure that that's like not a one off, like oh, you captured the email. Okay, I guess I have an email. Like do you follow through and say, hey, do you have like a setup list of sends, do you have like a newsletter that reoccurs like how are you, is there, is there any of your campaigns focused on like list acquisition as the channel building their email list and not optimizing for not just the immediate sale or the demo but also long term, hey, we've added, you know, 500 people to your, your list and, and that represents this level of interaction down the road or is that segmented off to somebody else and you hope.
[00:25:43] Speaker B: That'S done so truthfully, more often than not it's, it's not that it's more driving towards for the sales meeting. It just depends on the person we're working with. Some people have more of a longer term mindset.
[00:25:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:56] Speaker B: And if that's the case, we'll do things like that and there won't be that like direct, you know, like how much did you spend? How much did we earn? Well, it doesn't look perfect. Let's, let's cut it. But the truth is the majority of people, that's how they think, which is, you know, a little unfortunate cause there's probably something missed. But, but in terms of if it is like sometimes we are promoting content versus a demo request, if it's a demo request or a free trial or something like that, usually there's not much trouble with like that follow up process and scheduling a meeting. If there is, we will help with it because at the end of the day that's what we're trying to do is get, get them to hold meetings. Yeah, but, but it's usually not, it's usually not that big of a problem. Like, like usually there's not that many coming in each day. Right. They already raised their hand. It's like you just gotta email them or call them and they, and they say yes, if it's content sometimes can be a little bit trickier. So if that's not converting, then we'll try to think through like what's the best way to get them more engaged. Maybe that's like a more like in your sequence, making it more educational based and pushing them more to additional content, nurturing them a little bit more rather than just like going for the kill. You know, someone who downloads content isn't necessarily ready to talk to a salesperson. Or it could be driving them through a nurture first and then seeing who continues to engage, then passing to the sales team so they're a little bit warmer and the conversion rate's higher.
[00:27:20] Speaker A: Right. And also for remarketing, coming back and trying to get that slice of the pie build up.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:26] Speaker A: The other question I had was about competitors and what role do you see them playing in how you position that your ads. Is it always oppositional? Is it duplicative? Is it trying to find the in between? Like you've got three competitors and none of them focused on this value proposition. So I want to hit that or is it always isn't more? Hey, these three competitors had this level of success hitting these, so we want to duplicate that. So is it, how do you view the competitor as an asset engaging how you could perform, where you should perform and where you should target?
[00:28:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, I think a lot of it is like learning from the competitors.
One of the first things I'll do when I do keyword research is I'm going to look at where the competitors not only bidding from a paid perspective, but where are they ranking organically? And it's not 100% accurate. Right. Because a lot of people spend a lot of money on Google Ads and don't get results. So just because a competitor is bidding on something, it doesn't necessarily mean like, oh, you're going to have success too. But, but it's a really good indicator, especially organically. It means they put some thought into like where they think they should be placed and what they should call themselves. So there's a lot of insight there. I still think, again, you gotta kind of do your own judgment. Sometimes you see competitors bidding on keywords that you're like, that makes, that makes no sense.
And so you gotta use your judgment a little bit. But I think it can be a really good starting point.
So that's the first thing when it comes to ad copy. I think it's also very, it's similar, I would say it's looking and seeing what they're doing. And like sometimes you see things where you're like, oh, that's interesting, they put their pricing in the ad or they highlighted the integrations. And I think you can use that to guide your thinking a little bit too. But the thing I'll say is what's really hard is trying to differentiate in these ads, especially because Google Ads are pretty short. You know, the headline's 30 characters. You want to include the keyword in that ad, but everyone else includes the keyword. So I think it's key to try to think through how do you differentiate as a company? And is there something easy and specific that you can call out? So I think some things that we try to call out are one, any statistics that they have that the company has, whether it's like we work with 2000 banks or whatever it is, right. Something specific or maybe they've gotten a specific result for clients. Like we've helped, you know, increase your, you know, whatever, productivity by 15%. Usually those, usually those type of things are unique to the business that other people can't say. The other thing I think that is helpful is calling out your audience because sometimes there are, there are a lot of players in a category, but you serve a specific audience versus someone else. So a good example is project management software. There's so many project management softwares on the market. But like I worked for a company that was a real estate project management software that spoke to that, that sold to real estate owners. So just by saying like for real estate owners or for. Right. It's simple, but. But at least for the people who are that audience, they see that and that that stands out because, you know, Asana doesn't say that because they're just a general project management software. So. So I think. I think that's the key is really trying to figure out what is unique about your business and what can be said in 30 characters that actually quickly. Just tell someone who's searching. Okay. Like, this is a little bit different than the other options.
[00:31:18] Speaker A: That makes sense. Thanks so much for your time. Why don't you tell us where people can find you? Are you on Twitter? Do you have a blog? People should check out some information about you.
[00:31:27] Speaker B: Yeah, so if you want to learn more about my business, you can go to srgmarketing. Co. What we do is we actually offer free paid ad audits to anyone who chats with us. So if you're looking, you're just looking to get a second pair of eyes on your ad account or you are having issues, we could do a free audit. So that's the first thing. I'm also creating content on YouTube, so you can just search Scott Gelber and you'll find me on YouTube and then on LinkedIn as well, posting a lot of content.
[00:31:53] Speaker A: Thanks so much.
[00:31:54] Speaker B: All right, thanks, Jeremy.
